July 15 2009
The Latest Citizens Initiated Referendum…
posted by Ana Samways at 5:46 pm
A Facebook group parodying the phrasing of the smacking referendum question revealed the idiocity of the question nicely. The best included:
1) Should P manufacturing, as part of good entrepreneurship, be a criminal offence?
2) Should rape, as part of a good date, be a criminal offence?
3) Are you opposed to free icecream, and a little bit of genocide?
A referendum ad generating site dedicated to the parody of the smacking referendum question has created over 2500 billboards. And now, this truly biting, topical satire…
July 16th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
None of the parodies you list reveal any “idiocity” in the referendum question. While they may be funny, it is not relevant to compare discipline of children to adult relationships because any discipline at all (such as grounding or confiscation)would be illegal between adults. The logical result of such a view would be 1) that children should never receive any kind of discipline, ever, from their parents, and 2) that all such action against adults (ie, our justice system) is wrong.
I found the discussion here quite helpful: http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/07/fisking-ian-hassall-arbitrary-ethical.html
July 16th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Actually, Trevor, there are plenty of disciplinary actions which are legal between adults. Employers have a range of disciplinary options, and apart from the national justice system local councils and other bodies can levy fines, seize property, ban people from particular areas, etc. Most non violent methods of disciplining children have parallels in the adult world: children can be grounded, adults can be imprisoned or banned from certain property; children can have their pocket money cut off, adults can be fired from their jobs or fined; children and adults can both have property seized. But there is no circumstance under which an adult – even a murderer – can have violence legally inflicted on them.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
The act of smacking and a referendum around that isn’t the real issue. What is worthy of ridicule is the way the question is worded.
It presupposes that a smack is part of ‘good’ parental correction, which is a debate in itself. And the of course a good thing shouldn’t be illegal should it?
But even ignoring that, there is no clear legislative path to implement the result if the ‘no’ vote were to win and be adopted by government. There is no way to legislate a ‘good smack’ – at some point there has to be dispute about what constitutes that, at which point the police would investigate, and if they deemed a prosecution justified would file charges, then a court would further rule on the criminality of the action.
And that is exactly where we are at with the law now. The police can investigate and choose not to proceed where the offence is consider minor or inconsequential. And by and large the evidence suggests that is exactly what they have been doing.
If the question were “Should the recent changes to Section 59 of the crimes act be repealed?” then a clear yes or no answer would have a direct legislative course. Repeal the changes, or don’t.
July 17th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Dear Helen, in response to your claim “But there is no circumstance under which an adult – even a murderer – can have violence legally inflicted on them.” This is quite wrong. The Police have always had a legal right to Punch, Kick, Hit with a Baton, Place someone in a choke hold or arm bar and even shoot to kill. Other methods such as Mace or Pepper spray and Tasers are new to the police but are currently legal and are required to prevent suspects from escaping or injurying the police officer or a member of the Public. Although I would NEVER punch a child I would consider a short, sharp slap on the back of their hand if they were reaching for something that could inflict injury or death in order to protect the child. Childern do not always respond quickly to a spoken command and a child may not yet understand what is being said to them. I would also consider a single open hand slap to the buttocks or back of the thigh as acceptable punishment. I would never accept a closed fist punch anywhere on the body or the use of a weapon of any sort (i.e. wooden spoon or electrical cord)or any contact with the head. There needs to be a law to protect childern but a law preventing all contact with a child may result in a childs permanent injury or death. Balance is the key to any succesful law and if balance is lacking or completely missing the law should be revised or replaced.
July 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=92876168772#/group.php?gid=92876168772
Here’s the link to that Facebook group.